Avatar of PSF

by

Manny for Jason Bay?

July 30, 2008 in Uncategorized

And people are excited about this??

I’m hearing that a multi-team deal involving Jason Bay and the Florida Marlins is in the “final stages.” This could involve the previously in-place dealings involving Manny Ramirez as reported by our own John Perrotto. Joe Frisaro of MLB.com thinks that Bay could end up in Boston, Jeremy Hermida in Pittsburgh, and prospects flying every which way. My sources agree, though I will update as details become clearer.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=966

Yeah; Jason Bay = Manny Ramirez.

Thought I’d put up a new posts so comments could continue here…

28 responses to Manny for Jason Bay?

  1. jason bay is the type of guy that will take the Sox over the top. . .oh brother.
    I saw Manny’s most recent comments, and I think he’s on target about the Sox and their treatment of guys who are in the twilight of their careers, or at the back end. They don’t treat them well, and the media does a great job of painting them as me-me guys (you can go back to Boggs and Greenwell on this). Nomar and Pedro both gave their hearts out to Sox baseball, and more or less were kicked out the door on bad terms. Schilling to an extent too and he’s still with the team.
    I’m sorry, Manny is right.

  2. I gave you a history today of the problem involving Nomar, which you chose to ignore. He was offered $15 mil. per year which he passed on and thereafter he was injuryprone with the Cubs, we were lucky that we got rid of him. Greenwell was dismissed just in time, he stunk up the place in Japan. Boggs was also going downhill. Getting rid of Pedro at the time was perfect timing on Theo’s part. Schilling screwed the Sox out of $8 mil. with no return at all. The team will rebound as soon as they rid themselves of the cancer, a few weeks of chemotherapy and radiation is what they need. I remember Cater leading the group about the cancer that CIF was, well this was much worse. Cater puts on a good show but treat his comments with a grain of salt. If you want the real story, tune into Peter Ganmmons.

  3. Well, now you are making up history as it goes along. For the record, I was one of the few who defended Everett for some of the same reasons I defend Manny now. CIF was one of the few guys doing anything offensively for the Sox in his few years here. He was nowhere near Manny’s league, not even close, but in the relative comparison to the rest of his teammates in his Sox years, he had very little competition other than Nomar on offense. I remember Jimy Williams batting Nomar 4th and Everett 6th in an interleague game at Philadelphia when the team had been in a tail spin but were still in 1st place in the division at the time. They were the only two guys hitting for them and instead of going at least 3,4 with them, he goes 4 and 6 with the truly awful at the time O’Leary and some others wasting space in between. When Curly went after CIF with vicious columns about him, it was followed by Carl’s blowup when he lost control with the headbutt game. Anyway, a lot of people wanted CIF gone and got their wish. I was defending the guy right up until he was dumped. I’m sure PSF can verify this. When CIF broke up Mussina’s perfect game, I, unlike Bob Ryan, cheered wildly, just as I did when Pedroia broke up Lackey’s no hitter. Apparently, I’m a true Sox fan who happens to like the fact the team hasn’t been no hit at home in 50 years. But while CIF was a Sox, I cheered for him and I defended him, more so because he produced offense, something that Tony Clark couldn’t do, something that Darrin Lewis rarely did. If you produce and help the Sox win games, I don’t care if you beat your wife at home (a certain former Expo and Sox). Manny has said many harmless things, he pushed down a traveling secretary (pedro pushed zimmer) and he rightfully chastised Youkilis. Everything Manny says about the Sox organization has rung true. They are going to get rid of him for all the wrong reasons.

  4. I remember when Zimmer left Fergie Jenkins in the doghouse with Bill Lee when the team desperately needed pitching. Personal vendettas were more important than the Sox winning with free spirits and outspoken players. The Idiots team of 04 were all about being outspoken and being politically incorrect. This 08 team lacks character despite a ton of talent. Dumping Manny won’t help that.

  5. I’m glad the Sox didn’t toss Yaz out on his ass and let him play out his career with grace/respect. If Theo and Crab were running the show back then, Yaz would have been unconditionally released because he was at the tail end of his career. Schilling wanted surgery prescribed by his doc, and the Sox spitefully said no and Curt rehabbed with poor advice from current Sox doctors, and then he has to go get surgery so he became useless. Schilling might be an ass, but he helped the Sox win 2 titles too. Lowe was huge in 04 and even back in 03. Nixon was huge in 04. Nomar may have behaved poorly in 04, but he did everything for that team since 97, and deserved better than be ridiculed out the door. Manny deserves better treatment too.

  6. It is a business, team after team release or trade away players at the tail end of their careers. That is one of the duties of a general manager. They owe that to their fans – to remove the deadwood and replace it with something better. Tom Yawkey did not follow this principle and overpaid and retained deadwood year after year, that is why the Sox return per dollar spent under him were the worse in MLB. Yaz was always a gentleman, never acted like a spoiled child, and played the game because he loved the game – not the money. If he had been traded, he would have taken it with disappointment but with class.
    The stats that Nomar put up from 1997 to 2003 were great but are irrelevant in what happened in 2004. He was offered a $60 mil for 4 yrs. contract and said no, he then pouted for four months ( a la Manny), sat on the bench faking an injury in a memorable loss at Yankee Stadium as Jeter dove headfirst into the stands to make a great catch ( Jeter wiped away the blood and continued playing), he later told management that he would sit out the last two months so his body would be 100% in November for free agency. You definitely seem to be the room apologist for malcontents like CIF, Manny, and Nomar. Tell me Cater, Mike Tyson was a great fighter, has the media / press been wrong in their vicious attacks on him. Should we look only at his stats and ignore his character? Do you want Barry Bonds on the team, all we need to do is to ignore the fact that he cheated. Nixon never did much after leaving, what is your point? He was one of my favorite players while he was here. Even after Schilling gets surgery, he will be done – so the result would have been the same either way. Lowe had an ERA of 4.5 in 2003 and 5.4 in 2004. Was mr. inconsistent, which is why he was let go.

  7. No offense, but I find it humorous when people say that players from previous generations (read old players…Yaz included) played because they loved the game, and it wasn’t for the money. That’s because they weren’t making anywhere close to the money players are making now. They had to play for the love and not the money.

  8. Dick Williams once fined Yaz for not running out a groundball, it continued a rift that cost Dicky his job. Yaz also admittedly took amphetamines during the 70s to get through the dog days of the season. So should I call Yaz a druggie who dogged it? Mike Tyson is one of the greatest boxers in the history of the sport, he dominated opponents during a period of time when boxing had very little going for it from a PR standpoint. Yaz produced, Tyson produced. Yaz became a model citizen, Tyson became a Dennis Rodman freak show. I’m not going to denigrate Tyson’s accomplishments because he was a “bad guy.” I’m not going to criticize Yaz, a 3,000 hit, 400 homer guy. If this is truly a business and the goal is to win WS titles or boxing championships, why would I not want Tyson in his prime or Manny Ramirez, a proven Hall of Fame hitter with 2 WS titles under his belt. If Manny was batting .210 with 8 homers and 30 RBI, I’d rip him, but believe me I would still really appreciate everything he did offensively to get this team 2 WS titles. But see he’s hitting .299 with 20 homers and almost 70 RBI, which means he’s producing, unlike the bottom half of the Sox order. I say it’s bad business to get rid of your best hitter over the past 8 years (no one is close, consistently except Ortiz who covers less seasons in that span).

  9. How many times would Dick Williams had fined Manny for not running out a groundball? Should a manager have the right to do such things? After all Manny can hit, hit, and hit. He’s a superstar and on way to HOF. Fining him just might be counterproductive, you might piss him off. And heaven forbid that if CHB also sees him not running out a groundball and mentions it in his column. That makes CHB a Manny hater. If CHB had mentioned Yaz taking bennies in his column, I would be all for it. CHB’s mission is to provide commentary / opinions on the players. He should tell us that there are two sets of rules in the clubhouse, one for Pedro and one for the team, one for Manny and one for the team. That is his job, what should he do, be a Bill James and recite statistics and expand boxscores every day. Nearly everything he wrote about Nomar, Pedro, and Manny turned out to be the truth and we would not have known unless reporters privide us with such information. My question to you regarding Tyson is would you have been his apologist for his behavior after his behavior became known? Schilling on Manny not running on grounder in Lackey game ” Oh, he does that quite often”. What do you think about that, does Manny piss you off there or do you dismiss it because he has two WS rings. Sorry, I guess that I am trying to convert an apologist into rational person, it is like beating a dead horse. Read the responses to Chad Finn column yesterday, 125 responses and 120 want Manny out of town on the next bus, in general they said “Enough is enough”.

  10. One of those responses to Chad Finn from Rob: I don’t know why the Manny bashers are vilified. In the end they proved to be correct and the defenders/enablers are finally seeing the truth. There was never any debate as to what Manny did with his bat. What it came down to was the example he set in the clubhouse, his commitment to the team and respect for the fans and the game itself. He’s a great talent but he lacks the heart and maturity to be truly great. Who takes a $20 million salary then tanks plays or even games because of his feelings? Takes huge money then can’t honor his commitments to the team and the fans that pay his salary? Manny has received much love from Boston and in the end he could never man up and do right by us. Guys like him poison the pond for everyone else.

  11. just saw that the dodgers were back in the fold with either Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier…..don’t know much about either.

  12. Manny, Brandon Moss, and Craig Hansen for Jason Bay (2 going to pirates, 1 to dodgers–Manny). Sox were so desperate to get rid of him, they gave up a pretty good 4th outfielder, and their future closer all for Jason Bay. At least there’s no pressure on Bay to perform in Curly/Ryan/McAdam/Gammons/Buckley town.

  13. I kind of like comment No. 75 in the Chad Finn blog

  14. Very expensive to get rid of the malcontent, Hansen, Moss, and $7 mil. But thank God, there is now a clubhouse that has one set of rules. According to Gammons, several teammates said that Manny said he was going to loaf for the remainder of the year. LA seems to be a good fit for Manny. Perhaps LA deserves Manny, we didn’t deserve another clubhouse cancer. I will be following the newspaper columns to see if any of their columnists tell the truth about the real Manny. Manny will be on good behavior for awhile, until Boras and Manny demand an exhorbitant/ ridiculous amount for him during winter. That Sports economist from Smith College says that he is worth $13 mil. per year.

  15. Joe Torre was just seen going out to his favorite bar and ordering a pitcher of Manhattans.

  16. Well…here’s my two cents worth. Manny continues to be the sweetest RH swing in the game…maybe ever. There is no replacing that swing, or the clutch performance he has provided. Maybe Manny himself cant provide that anymore…I dont know. I do know the Sox had no choice but to deal him….he made sure of that. ANYONE…ANYONE!!!!, who gets paid $20mm/yr to play baseball has no place to b itch about “peace of mind” regarding ownership….the manchild, as usual, doesnt have an intellectual leg to stand on, but has found a way to get exactly what he wants. Funny how that works.

    As far as Bay goes….as good a pickup as one could hope for under the circumstances. He’ll be a solid addition and will provide some things that Manny cant…or wont. The Sox, as a team, can absorb this and still be solid contenders.

    I am gonna miss (some of) the antics, the true child inside the man that loves to hit a baseball, and the devastating tandem Manny and Ortiz provided the Sox…but I still think the Sox are as capable of winning, and will likely have a better “team”

  17. oh, oh, Theo, my hero. . .he acquired the most sought out Pirate since Matt Stairs. He only paid 7 million dollars cash, gave up on a very good talent in Moss, and dumped 95-mph Hansen, who was once considered untouchable. Oh, and he gave up Manny too. Maybe when Bay’s contract comes up, maybe the Sox can actually negotiate with him prior to the end of the contract.

  18. ami said on July 31, 2008

    hansen is NOT the future closer for any major league team. Get your head out of your @ss

  19. ami said on July 31, 2008

    He wore No. 38 for the Pirates and No. 2 for the Padres. Curt Schilling said today he would give up his No. 38 — for a fee, which would go to Schilling’s Curt’s Pitch charity.

    Oy vey

  20. First, Good-bye Manny and thank you! You are one of the main reasons Sox have 2 World Series rings. I don’t blame the Sox and I don’t blame Manny. This is all about Boras. Boras needed this he was working for free for Manny. Boras needed a new contract for Manny in two years Manny would not get much. The man-child was talked into this by Boras. I feel for Jason Bay, as he is a good player putting up good numbers on a cruddy team in Pittsburgh. He plays hard and has a good work ethic from everything I read. Jason however is walking into a powder keg I hope he is ready for this. If he can knock in 100 in Pittsburgh he should be able to do better in Boston. The question that is unanswered is can he handle the pressure of playing in Boston.

  21. Cater never responded to these questions so I repeat them:
    How many times would Dick Williams had fined Manny for not running out a groundball? Should a manager have the right to do such things? After all Manny can hit, hit, and hit. He’s a superstar and on way to HOF. Fining him just might be counterproductive, you might piss him off. And heaven forbid that if CHB also sees him not running out a groundball and mentions it in his column. That makes CHB a Manny hater. If CHB had mentioned Yaz taking bennies in his column, I would be all for it. CHB’s mission is to provide commentary / opinions on the players. He should tell us that there are two sets of rules in the clubhouse, one for Pedro and one for the team, one for Manny and one for the team. That is his job, what should he do, be a Bill James and recite statistics and expand boxscores every day. Nearly everything he wrote about Nomar, Pedro, and Manny turned out to be the truth and we would not have known unless reporters privide us with such information. My question to you regarding Tyson is would you have been his apologist for his behavior after his behavior became known? Schilling on Manny not running on grounder in Lackey game ” Oh, he does that quite often”. What do you think about that, does Manny piss you off there or do you dismiss it because he has two WS rings. Sorry, I guess that I am trying to convert an apologist into rational person, it is like beating a dead horse. Read the responses to Chad Finn column yesterday, 125 responses and 120 want Manny out of town on the next bus, in general they said “Enough is enough”.

  22. For Crab,

    Cater never responded to these questions so I repeat them:
    How many times would Dick Williams had fined Manny for not running out a groundball?

    A. If he did it twice and Yawkey was owner, he would have been fired just like with Yaz

    Should a manager have the right to do such things?
    A. Yes

    My question to you regarding Tyson is would you have been his apologist for his behavior after his behavior became known?
    A. Sure, as long as he won fights

    Schilling on Manny not running on grounder in Lackey game ” Oh, he does that quite often”. What do you think about that, does Manny piss you off there or do you dismiss it because he has two WS rings.

    I don’t dismiss anything, however he did help the team win 2 WS, and all the other noble Sox prior to him have no WS rings. If he is out by 2 feet instead of 4 feet, he’s still out. When everyone went nuts a few years ago for him not running out a ball to the pitcher, my feeling is if he runs down the line and rips a hamstring and is out for 2 months just to satisfy everyone’s idea of hustle, even though he was going to be out by 20 feet, then what’s the point?

    Read the responses to Chad Finn column yesterday, 125 responses and 120 want Manny out of town on the next bus, in general they said “Enough is enough”.

    2 of the responses were from me, so I guess I won’t follow the masses on that one.

  23. My Manny Last Add,
    All you have to do is watch the reaction from all those experts who were previously ripping Manny. Everyone is applauding the Dodgers for getting him. They all think he will be an asset. All the Yankee fans and their organization is collectively happy Manny won’t be hitting v. them in any more important games. The Angels are also extremely pleased Manny is gone for the same reasons. The potential playoff squads are happy that Manny is no longer a Sox, so he won’t hurt them (unless the Dodgers make the playoffs, which could very well happen now–why–because Manny immediately gives the team an offensive weapon they haven’t had since going back to Pedro Guerrero. The entire AL is happy because no longer will anyone fear the Gehrig-Ruth combo of Ortizzle and Manny. All of this because Manny was traded. I’d say the guy is a game-changer, a team changer, and bottom line he was a major reason why the team won 2 WS titles after the franchise had none over 86 years….You can be happy he’s gone and be pleased that Jason Bay is coming to Beantown and that all the drama is over, but bottom line is that the Sox lineup is no longer feared, and has become a lineup that isn’t even in the league’s top 8 with the Angels merrily skipping by it by acquiring a game-changer like Texiera. I hope the Sox can recover, but they are clearly no longer the best team in the league, something I thought they were as of a month ago.

  24. ami, i was being facetious on Hansen, but you know damn well the Sox held on to him and wouldn’t crack on a couple of trades that would have helped them a few years back. So he’s traded here in basically a dump move. Bay was coming one way or the other. Moss should not have been included in the deal.

  25. Memo to all batters: Cater says: Do not run fast as you can to first base because you might pull a hamstring.

  26. crab, watch most MLB players and you’ll notice many of them don’t run out balls hard when they KNOW THEY ARE F-ING OUT…NOMAR RAN OUT EVERY BALL, AND STILL WAS VILLIFIED, THE GREATEST HUSTLER OF THEM ALL (ON THE FIELD. . .AND OFF THE FIELD) PETE ROSE RAN OUT EVERY BALL HARD…AND WAS VILLIFIED…SO WHO CARES IF YOU RUN OUT EVERY BALL HARD??? THE MLB PLAYERS AS A WHOLE DON’T. MANY PICK AND CHOOSE THE BALLS THEY RUN HARD ON, MANNY DID TOO.

  27. But on that ball, Manny had a chance to beat it out and it was a no-hitter. His response – a wry smile. Got booed.

Leave a reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Facebook login by WP-FB-AutoConnect